odd question about manholes and innercity fiber conduits

[essenz]

Not sure where to start with this, but here goes.

My company is in the telecom business, but we are not a CLEC.
Primarily hosting and colocation. We want to get into the metro
ethernet market and we want to get our hands dirty. i.e. I dont want
to pay everyone else to do things that are simple.

But there is a big barrier that I dont know how to cross.

Consider this case. Our POP is in a building in center city
Philadelphia. Right down the street, literally one block is an office
building which many potential customers. If I could run my own fiber
cable from my POP to that building, I could offer Layer2 ethernet
services and internet access to those customers. Bypassing verizon,
local loops, etc.,. Now every street in Phila has sewer and manholes
for running fiber, and since I would be doing short running, there
would be no repeaters, just raw fiber cable.

But how does one do this? Does verizon own the rights to those
manholes? Does it go through the city? How do people like Sunesys do
it? I know my engineers and facilities guys could easily run that
fiber themselves in that manhole.

I would really like to learn how this works. We are in the heart of
the Phila downtown markets, with direct fiber to a handfull of
buildings, we can service alot of customers. Once we get into the
building, its easy.

thanks
john

[T]

Post by essenz
Not sure where to start with this, but here goes.
My company is in the telecom business, but we are not a CLEC.
Primarily hosting and colocation. We want to get into the metro
ethernet market and we want to get our hands dirty. i.e. I dont want
to pay everyone else to do things that are simple.
But there is a big barrier that I dont know how to cross.
Consider this case. Our POP is in a building in center city
Philadelphia. Right down the street, literally one block is an office
building which many potential customers. If I could run my own fiber
cable from my POP to that building, I could offer Layer2 ethernet
services and internet access to those customers. Bypassing verizon,
local loops, etc.,. Now every street in Phila has sewer and manholes
for running fiber, and since I would be doing short running, there
would be no repeaters, just raw fiber cable.
But how does one do this? Does verizon own the rights to those
manholes? Does it go through the city? How do people like Sunesys do
it? I know my engineers and facilities guys could easily run that
fiber themselves in that manhole.
I would really like to learn how this works. We are in the heart of
the Phila downtown markets, with direct fiber to a handfull of
buildings, we can service alot of customers. Once we get into the
building, its easy.

Talk to the power company. They'll let you run fiber in their ducts if
you have an easement with them. They'll probably want a cut but you
don't get something for nothing.

[Howard Eisenhauer]

*Snip*
I know my engineers and facilities guys could easily run that
fiber themselves in that manhole.
*Snip*
thanks
john

John, if yiur guys arn't trained to go down holes forget about sending
them in, the responsible authority ain't gonna let them down there.
Therers too many asphixiation deaths of *trained* people every year,
never mind un-trained.

H.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by essenz
Now every street in Phila has sewer and manholes
for running fiber, and since I would be doing short running, there
would be no repeaters, just raw fiber cable.
But how does one do this? Does verizon own the rights to those
manholes? Does it go through the city? How do people like Sunesys do
it? I know my engineers and facilities guys could easily run that
fiber themselves in that manhole.

When you say "sewer manholes" are you referring to underground
structures in general or specifically to the city sewer system?

The sewer system is owned and operated by the city government. I am
not aware of its sewer pipes being used to carry communication
conduits. During a heavy storm the sewer pipes get flooded so your
lines would be surrounded by rushing water. You would need to install
and maintain the lines in a sewer which is not exactly pleasant
working conditions.

There are other underground facilities but AFAIK they are owned,
operated, and restricted for use by the particular company. Some
facilities downtown might have different uses, such as power conduits
owned by PRT/PTC for streetcars that no longer run or telegraph lines
by Western Union.

You would have to check with each pipe owner to see if there is even
room for your lines, whether they would allow it, and how much they
would charge you for the privilege. Or you could look into the option
of digging your own line (which is what all the other companies had to
do.)