Cable Removal Tips Wanted

[b***@yahoo.com]

I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?

1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.

2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)

3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.

If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.

Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?

Bob Simon

[sedulous05]

Demo work with the least amount of liability occurs when starting at
the end farthest from the closet or patch panels. Using cordless drills
start by unscrewing plates and cutting terminations (jacks, bnc's,
fiber connectors, rg6 connectors, etc). Once the cable is free from its
far end termination point, it is easy to ID bundles heading to the
closet.

Those that don't come easily are easy to ID and investigation is simple
in verifying whether the cable penetrates to another floor, is a
control wire (hvac) or alarm cabling.

This is easy work for unskilled labor. You can even provide a roll of
caution tape to mark the cables that require further investigation for
those more skilled.

It is hard to tell a floors history and from your installation
experience keep in mind that tenants do the darndest things when
handling things in house. I've seen both HVAC and security cables
terminated on patch panels and tied into 66blocks for sending out
remote alarms to property management, alarm companies, etc.

Same goes for working in a raised floor environment. Starting at the
far end removes 99% of all issues and also alleviates from having to
open every other tile up.

Surveys are good. They will allow you to verify how good, bad or ugly
the closet looks. You will also be able to verify if the tenant wants
the jacks and plates left in to use later as drop strings. In a raised
floor environment, you'll be able to see cable management. Whether they
used ty wraps or if the cables are just laying in a tray.

Hope this helps...

Jeri

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

[Bob Simon]

Jeri,
Thanks for your suggestion to start at the far end. I can see how
this would reduce potential problems, but from the description of the
job I'm not sure if I will be able to identify the obsolete cables
unless I start at the rack. I'll check this out especially when I do
the site survey.

I want to open up the raised floor to see what I'm dealing with. It's
easy to do and cables can sometimes get hung up on electrical boxes
especially if they get a kink in them.

I've been asked for a "not to exceed" estimate. Do you think 10
cables an hour is a reasonable place to start?
Bob

Post by sedulous05
Demo work with the least amount of liability occurs when starting at
the end farthest from the closet or patch panels. Using cordless drills
start by unscrewing plates and cutting terminations (jacks, bnc's,
fiber connectors, rg6 connectors, etc). Once the cable is free from its
far end termination point, it is easy to ID bundles heading to the
closet.
Those that don't come easily are easy to ID and investigation is simple
in verifying whether the cable penetrates to another floor, is a
control wire (hvac) or alarm cabling.
This is easy work for unskilled labor. You can even provide a roll of
caution tape to mark the cables that require further investigation for
those more skilled.
It is hard to tell a floors history and from your installation
experience keep in mind that tenants do the darndest things when
handling things in house. I've seen both HVAC and security cables
terminated on patch panels and tied into 66blocks for sending out
remote alarms to property management, alarm companies, etc.
Same goes for working in a raised floor environment. Starting at the
far end removes 99% of all issues and also alleviates from having to
open every other tile up.
Surveys are good. They will allow you to verify how good, bad or ugly
the closet looks. You will also be able to verify if the tenant wants
the jacks and plates left in to use later as drop strings. In a raised
floor environment, you'll be able to see cable management. Whether they
used ty wraps or if the cables are just laying in a tray.
Hope this helps...
Jeri

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

--
Bob Simon
Please remove Xs from domain for direct replies.

[Carl Navarro]

Post by Bob Simon
Jeri,
Thanks for your suggestion to start at the far end. I can see how
this would reduce potential problems, but from the description of the
job I'm not sure if I will be able to identify the obsolete cables
unless I start at the rack. I'll check this out especially when I do
the site survey.
I want to open up the raised floor to see what I'm dealing with. It's
easy to do and cables can sometimes get hung up on electrical boxes
especially if they get a kink in them.
I've been asked for a "not to exceed" estimate. Do you think 10
cables an hour is a reasonable place to start?
Bob

Post by sedulous05
Demo work with the least amount of liability occurs when starting at
the end farthest from the closet or patch panels. Using cordless drills
start by unscrewing plates and cutting terminations (jacks, bnc's,
fiber connectors, rg6 connectors, etc). Once the cable is free from its
far end termination point, it is easy to ID bundles heading to the
closet.
Those that don't come easily are easy to ID and investigation is simple
in verifying whether the cable penetrates to another floor, is a
control wire (hvac) or alarm cabling.
This is easy work for unskilled labor. You can even provide a roll of
caution tape to mark the cables that require further investigation for
those more skilled.
It is hard to tell a floors history and from your installation
experience keep in mind that tenants do the darndest things when
handling things in house. I've seen both HVAC and security cables
terminated on patch panels and tied into 66blocks for sending out
remote alarms to property management, alarm companies, etc.
Same goes for working in a raised floor environment. Starting at the
far end removes 99% of all issues and also alleviates from having to
open every other tile up.
Surveys are good. They will allow you to verify how good, bad or ugly
the closet looks. You will also be able to verify if the tenant wants
the jacks and plates left in to use later as drop strings. In a raised
floor environment, you'll be able to see cable management. Whether they
used ty wraps or if the cables are just laying in a tray.
Hope this helps...
Jeri

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

[Carl Navarro]

Post by Bob Simon
Jeri,
Thanks for your suggestion to start at the far end. I can see how
this would reduce potential problems, but from the description of the
job I'm not sure if I will be able to identify the obsolete cables
unless I start at the rack. I'll check this out especially when I do
the site survey.
I want to open up the raised floor to see what I'm dealing with. It's
easy to do and cables can sometimes get hung up on electrical boxes
especially if they get a kink in them.
I've been asked for a "not to exceed" estimate. Do you think 10
cables an hour is a reasonable place to start?
Bob

No.

Post by Bob Simon

Post by sedulous05
Demo work with the least amount of liability occurs when starting at
the end farthest from the closet or patch panels. Using cordless drills
start by unscrewing plates and cutting terminations (jacks, bnc's,
fiber connectors, rg6 connectors, etc). Once the cable is free from its
far end termination point, it is easy to ID bundles heading to the
closet.
Those that don't come easily are easy to ID and investigation is simple
in verifying whether the cable penetrates to another floor, is a
control wire (hvac) or alarm cabling.
This is easy work for unskilled labor. You can even provide a roll of
caution tape to mark the cables that require further investigation for
those more skilled.
It is hard to tell a floors history and from your installation
experience keep in mind that tenants do the darndest things when
handling things in house. I've seen both HVAC and security cables
terminated on patch panels and tied into 66blocks for sending out
remote alarms to property management, alarm companies, etc.
Same goes for working in a raised floor environment. Starting at the
far end removes 99% of all issues and also alleviates from having to
open every other tile up.
Surveys are good. They will allow you to verify how good, bad or ugly
the closet looks. You will also be able to verify if the tenant wants
the jacks and plates left in to use later as drop strings. In a raised
floor environment, you'll be able to see cable management. Whether they
used ty wraps or if the cables are just laying in a tray.
Hope this helps...
Jeri

Since you ignored the above answer, it's unlikely you will read this
one, but why would you open up the entire floor for any reason?
The point of a raised floor is to provide a raceway and to hide the
cables. It's unlikely that they used cable ties every 3 feet and
dobtful that they used hangers every 4-6.

THe real question is not how many calbles you can mine per hour, but
how many cables you can identify as dead in an hour. You only
marginally care about the in-service cables, you're more concerned
about the dead ones. If you can ID 100 cables an hour, you ought to
be able to mine at least half of them in 2 man yours. Remember, your
customer claims there are 9000 cables under the floor that need to be
removed.

THe thing you have to ask your non-survey customer is how he expects
you to know which cables to remove. Is it because the cables are cut
dead under the floor, or do they go to unused drops, or is he cutting
the amount of drops in half, or are you hiding some obsolete cables in
the floor.

However you determine which cables are to be removed, the procedure
would be to free both ends and then work your way toward the middle
ofs the room. If you absolutely know from the patch panel end which
cables get mined, then work into the raised floor from that end. If
not, you'll have to work from the drops toward the mdf.

I wouldn't take more that 6 workers.

Carl Navarro

Post by Bob Simon

Post by sedulous05

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

[Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com)]

Post by b***@yahoo.com
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?

As far as quoting this sort of a job for the customer I would try to get a
small pilot job approved first, say, (2) 2-men crews for a week under
customer's supervision if they want. You can really make the pilot job a
"not-to-exceed" job as the cost of your labor is fixed for the known time.
After the pilot job is complete you can gauge it and see if any reasonable
estimate on the whole job can be given at the time. If not - do another
small one.

This pilot job will also become your hands-on site survey and I am sure on
a 10K cables job there is no telling what you will uncover and no survey
will actually show that unless you actually are removing cables doing it.
Additionally, you will get paid for a survey in a sense. Try it. It worked
for us in the past. The customer should be reasonable enough to understand
that removal jobs are almost impossible to give a fixed quote for
(not-to-exceed is one of them 'cause you always end up at the high end of
it)


--

Best Regards,
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com/
Home Cabling Guide, Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful
resources for premises cabling users and pros

--
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[Ted]

With the percent of dead runs to live runs, and for your peace of mind, you
might want to think of removing all the cables and starting from scratch.
With the shear number of cables, you are bound to mis-label some live runs
as dead. The removal will be easier and quicker and you know that all the
runs when you are done are done right. Why risk your reputation on what
someone else did.

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

[Carl Navarro]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:10:11 -0500, "Ted"

Post by Ted
With the percent of dead runs to live runs, and for your peace of mind, you
might want to think of removing all the cables and starting from scratch.
With the shear number of cables, you are bound to mis-label some live runs
as dead. The removal will be easier and quicker and you know that all the
runs when you are done are done right. Why risk your reputation on what
someone else did.

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

Same with this one, Ted. I thought I was going through some kind of
time warp. The cable removal issue has been long resolved.

Carl

[DTC]

Post by Carl Navarro
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:10:11 -0500, "Ted"

Post by Ted
With the percent of dead runs to live runs, and for your peace of mind, you
might want to think of removing all the cables and starting from scratch.
With the shear number of cables, you are bound to mis-label some live runs
as dead. The removal will be easier and quicker and you know that all the
runs when you are done are done right. Why risk your reputation on what
someone else did.

Post by b***@yahoo.com
I have a lead on some work removing obsolete cable from under the floor
of a big computer room. I've been told that there are over 10,000 Cat5
cables there and around 1,000 of these are currently in use but I can't
do a site survey until next week so I have to make all kind of
assumptions. My cable installation skills are good, but this is
removal rather than installation plus it's a bigger job than anything
I've done up till now. Does the following approach sound like the best
way to handle this?
1) Remove every other floor tile in a checkerboard pattern where this
is easy. Remove covers from all vertical cable mangagement devices on
the sides of the six racks.
2) Identify all the in-service cable by toning it out. If this isn't
practical, identify the in-service cable by physically pulling it.
Wrap each in-service cable with colored tape somewhere in the middle of
the room. (Would there be any benefit to writing the patch panel
number on this tape with magic marker?)
3) Cut the un-banded cables near the middle and pull it out from both
ends. Or if both ends are free, pull from the middle to remove.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than do the site survey first!)
I'd love to hear them.
Do you think it's realistic to expect that two-man teams can each
identify and remove 10 cables/hr? Do you think six teams (one per
rack) could all work at the same time without getting in each other's
way?
Bob Simon

Same with this one, Ted. I thought I was going through some kind of
time warp. The cable removal issue has been long resolved.
Carl