Disgusted

[Gordon Jarret]

I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional. I work for a
highly respected company that is a household name in Australia, which
provides individuals with the ability to shape government and corporate
policy.

My employer has no axe to grind, in fact we stay in business by being
totally unbiased and accurately reporting the views of those who choose to
talk to us. Because of our reputation, governments and corporations adjust
their policies and procedures in response to the information we provide.
They would not do so if we simply echoed the views of our management. They
do so because we consistently prove that our results accurately reflect the
opinions of the population.

Achieving such accuracy requires a complex sampling methodology which is
strictly enforced. Our staff are often frustrated by the difficulty of
obtaining proportional representation by age group, sex and location, but
they understand the necessity of remaining professional and not influencing
their respondents.

I foolishly joined this newsgroup with the expectation that I would find the
same professionalism that I have experienced in my involvement with many
other newsgroups over the last 15 years. Instead, I have received more abuse
tonight than in the average decade, from people who give me the distinct
impression that they wouldn't know a modem from a mouse.

I am thoroughly disgusted with the lot of you and you should hang your heads
in shame. You have made a mockery of this corner of Usenet. I will not name
the groups that remain professional, from fear that you would pollute them
too.

That is all.
Gordon

[Mark Crispin]

Post by Gordon Jarret
I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional. I work for a
highly respected company that is a household name in Australia, which
provides individuals with the ability to shape government and corporate
policy.

Does your "highly respected company that is a household name in Australia"
employer know that you call people such charming names as "fascist bitch"?

What is the name of this "highly respected company"? Perhaps we should
forward some of your communications to its upper management. I believe
that they will be very interested to see how one of their employees
conducts himself in a public forum.

From the way that you behave, you are probably quite young -- I guess no
more than your early 20s -- and thus your indiscretions can be attributed
to the impulsiveness of youth. Allow someone who is much older, perhaps
wiser (at least more experienced), to offer you some friendly advice:

Unwise statements posted in public, such as you have made, tend to have a
way of reverberating, often years later. Future prospective employers
WILL encounter this little thread as part of their due diligence of any
prospective hire; and it WILL affect their decision.

You would be well served by realizing that you have inserted your foot
firmly in your mouth. Your successive messages are not improving the
situation. Rather than appearing to be a mature professional, you appear
as an arrogant and spoiled child.

Leaving aside the validity (or otherwise) of your project -- do you
realize that you have just made yourself numerous enemies, including some
people who are in a position to cause serious harm to your career?

Fortunately for you, people do tend to forgive -- or at least forget.
That process will be helped along if you don't dig yourself any deeper.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

[Dana]

Post by Gordon Jarret
I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional.

No, you wrote seeking assistance in violating the privacy of people you do
not know, and who are not seeking your unwanted phone calls.
That kind of shows you are not an IT professional.

Post by Gordon Jarret
I work for a
highly respected company that is a household name in Australia,

If that was true, they would have no need to make unwanted calls to people.

Post by Gordon Jarret
which
provides individuals with the ability to shape government and corporate
policy.

3rd party people or the middle man like your company cannot do anything to
shape government or corporate policy.

Post by Gordon Jarret
My employer has no axe to grind, in fact we stay in business by being
totally unbiased and accurately reporting the views of those who choose to
talk to us.

Than why do you want the numbers of people who have not given you their
numbers. Maybe they do not want you to call them up.

[Carl Navarro]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:58:35 +1000, "Gordon Jarret"

Post by Gordon Jarret
I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional. I work for a
highly respected company that is a household name in Australia, which

<<snip babble about polling >>

Your original request:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm working for a social research firm that dials random numbers from
the
phone book. At least 1 in 5 are disconnected, and I'm told there is a
way to
electronically detect disconnected numbers without waiting for the
recorded
message.

I'm a database programmer, so I don't know much about telcos, but I'm
guessing that either there is a different impedance across the pair
when the
exchange answers, or an inaudible frequency that indicates whether or
not a
number is live. That's all I can think of.

Someone solved this once before for my boss when he was at another
company,
but their code is proprietory, so I have to start again. I hope
someone can
help.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Both of your guesses are wrong.
2. Your question on the particular function of telephone systems in
Austrialia went to an INTERNATIONAL group.
3. Are your 80 seats a group of monkeys dialing random numbers or did
Mr. IT professional look to see if you're using a predictive dialer?
4. If you dial a number, what DO YOU GET for a complete call and a
disconnected number.

Answers which have been mostly given:

1. Unless you're a dog, I would guess the intercept tones ought to be
audible. It also passes through the two wire network better to an end
user.

2. Sorry, I didn't make a career out of studying WTF Australia does
in telecom.

3. In a predictive dialer, the circuit board listens for a specific
frequency(ies) to detect DIALTONE,RINGBACK, BUSY, and INTERCEPT.

4. Goes with 3. AU central offices probably give you something to
audibly tell you the progress of a call.

Post by Gordon Jarret
I foolishly joined this newsgroup with the expectation that I would find the
same professionalism that I have experienced in my involvement with many
other newsgroups over the last 15 years. Instead, I have received more abuse
tonight than in the average decade, from people who give me the distinct
impression that they wouldn't know a modem from a mouse.

You're in the wrong group. We don't need to know a modem from a
mouse, and I'm not sure that you shouldn't have asked your question in
a warez or hacker group.

You got professionalism in the telecom.tech group in the fact that the
respondents are in the United States where there are huge penalties to
companies that randomly dial numbers, dial numbers on the Do Not Call
Registry, or violate the policies of telemarketing and polling. Next
month, it look like you will have the same, or similar rules
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD//pc=PC_100642

When you finish doing your research on how to provision your equipment
to comply with the DNC rules, the question you asked should be
answered.

Post by Gordon Jarret
I am thoroughly disgusted with the lot of you and you should hang your heads
in shame. You have made a mockery of this corner of Usenet. I will not name
the groups that remain professional, from fear that you would pollute them
too.

Quit whining. We could beat ourselves with rolled up newspapers. You
may be in IT, but you're cleary not a professional. Tell us where
you hang out and we'll go ask stupid questions and give our theories
in that group.

I guess I'm now preaching to the choir, because you should have been
gone before you wrote this flamebait.

Carl Navarro

[Jerry Peters]

Post by Gordon Jarret
I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional. I work for a
highly respected company that is a household name in Australia, which
provides individuals with the ability to shape government and corporate
policy.

You keep repeating this claim as if repeating it endlessly makes it
true, it's not. Politicians pay attention to VOTERS. There are quite
a number of ex-legislators in Pennsylvania (USA) that made the mistake
of ignoring the voters.

Post by Gordon Jarret
My employer has no axe to grind, in fact we stay in business by being
totally unbiased and accurately reporting the views of those who choose to
talk to us. Because of our reputation, governments and corporations adjust
their policies and procedures in response to the information we provide.
They would not do so if we simply echoed the views of our management. They
do so because we consistently prove that our results accurately reflect the
opinions of the population.

Oh yeah, like I really believe this. The _first_ question I always ask
about a poll is who paid for it. Most of the time this is sufficient
to predict the results.

Post by Gordon Jarret
Achieving such accuracy requires a complex sampling methodology which is
strictly enforced. Our staff are often frustrated by the difficulty of
obtaining proportional representation by age group, sex and location, but
they understand the necessity of remaining professional and not influencing
their respondents.

So, I care why?

Post by Gordon Jarret
I foolishly joined this newsgroup with the expectation that I would find the
same professionalism that I have experienced in my involvement with many
other newsgroups over the last 15 years. Instead, I have received more abuse
tonight than in the average decade, from people who give me the distinct
impression that they wouldn't know a modem from a mouse.

And you and your industry are thoroughly ethically challenged. I DO NOT
WANT YOUR DAMN PHONE CALLS! Is that plain enough for you? I don't care
about your alleged "professionalism" or your alleged role in policy
making.

Post by Gordon Jarret
I am thoroughly disgusted with the lot of you and you should hang your heads
in shame. You have made a mockery of this corner of Usenet. I will not name
the groups that remain professional, from fear that you would pollute them
too.

You're a fine one to talk, working for a company that disturbs people
and expects to invade their privacy as part of its business.

Jerry

Post by Gordon Jarret
That is all.
Gordon

[Bill]

My dear chap Jarret.

It is unfortunate that your home country Telecom has outsourced its
technical capabilities to some off shore former British Empire country
where the participants may be book smart, but lack the intristic capability
to understand what comprises a telecommunications network. Specifically, a
Telephone Network. Hopefully this will not happen to the US, at least in
the near future as much as it appears to be sliding in that same direction.

Outside of the comments on privacy, of which I totally agree with, your
quest to obtain information on how to identify disconnected telephone line
number, along with your comment on use of a Volt-Ohm meter,are significant
statements in that indicate your rather deep inexperience, and total lack
of understanding of what comprises a traditional telephone network. I
include your consultants, who, as it appears to me, getting being paid to
mmislead your organization. May I suggest that you fire them all.

Your quest to identify, and catalog working & non-working telephone
subcriber lines by means other than placing a direct dialed call is a
rather impossible task.

Unless you somehow were able to obtain telephone subscriber access loop
data from a telephone company repair record database. Someting that would
definitely not happen in the US, since this would be breaking both state,
and federal (US) laws dealing with privacy issues.

There are no technical solutions available to avoid the present method that
your organization employes to dial random telepone numbers as you describe.
This assumes that your calling agents are using telephone numbers from a
telephone directory that may be out of date in order to place all their
calls.

If your folks are dialing random ten digits (US), then it is pot luck to
insure that the area code (NPA), and the CO code (NXX) are correct, as well
as the four digit subsciber line number asociated with an NPA-NXX.

Sorry Jarret, but there is no easy pill available to obtain what you
originally inquired about. May I suggest that your company recruit & hire
retired telecom engineers to first help you identify the significance of
what dialtone is, and the line and trunk side terminations

I trust that you have not misplaced that snuff box....


Bill

Post by Gordon Jarret
I wrote seeking assistance with a telecommunications problem I have
encountered in the course of my work as an IT professional. I work for
a highly respected company that is a household name in Australia,
which provides individuals with the ability to shape government and
corporate policy.
My employer has no axe to grind, in fact we stay in business by being
totally unbiased and accurately reporting the views of those who
choose to talk to us. Because of our reputation, governments and
corporations adjust their policies and procedures in response to the
information we provide. They would not do so if we simply echoed the
views of our management. They do so because we consistently prove that
our results accurately reflect the opinions of the population.
Achieving such accuracy requires a complex sampling methodology which
is strictly enforced. Our staff are often frustrated by the difficulty
of obtaining proportional representation by age group, sex and
location, but they understand the necessity of remaining professional
and not influencing their respondents.
I foolishly joined this newsgroup with the expectation that I would
find the same professionalism that I have experienced in my
involvement with many other newsgroups over the last 15 years.
Instead, I have received more abuse tonight than in the average
decade, from people who give me the distinct impression that they
wouldn't know a modem from a mouse.
I am thoroughly disgusted with the lot of you and you should hang your
heads in shame. You have made a mockery of this corner of Usenet. I
will not name the groups that remain professional, from fear that you
would pollute them too.
That is all.
Gordon